Episode 62: Debe Fennell

February 09, 2026

WATCH THIS EPISODE LIVE ON YOUTUBE

Guest: Debe Fennell

Debe Fennell is a veteran JV and affiliate manager known for building high-impact partnerships for global brands and speaker-authors. With a background in national TV, radio, print, social media, and publishing, she shifted her expertise to affiliate relations, creating lasting collaborations between content creators and industry leaders.

She served as General Manager of LaunchMoxie’s Author Co-op and later as senior affiliate and JV manager for major international clients before founding Debe Enterprises, where she continues to provide strategic affiliate management, relationship building, and marketing leadership.

Prior to publishing and marketing, Debe had a distinguished music industry career, holding national promotion roles at Sony/BMG, Curb Records, Magnatone (VP of National Promotion), and Giant Records. As an independent promoter, she worked with top country artists, shaping careers and guiding them to national success.

Debe is also deeply committed to community service, serving on Reno’s Arts & Culture Committee, volunteering as a master gardener for a decade, and maintaining 25 years of Rotary membership. She now contributes her expertise on the City of Reno’s Urban Forestry Commission.

Episode Transcript

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Hello, and welcome back to another.

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encouraging. Inspiring, and including episode.

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of the Achieving Unity Success Formula Weekly Podcast.

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Where we help turn chaos

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Interconnection, and purpose.

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into action. I am your host, Mark Intrican, founder of the Achieving Unity Success Formula,

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Also known as the Unity Success Formula,

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She can find it at www.unitySuccessFormula.com.

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Which is dedicated to improving lives by encouraging

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Inspiring and including others.

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Hope you will go to my website and look at my post.

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And my blog, because you'll see that EII.

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There's a 10-series article on encouraging, inspiring, and including others, the EII,

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And how we all can, and must.

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Work together. Today,

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I am honored to introduce a truly remarkable guest.

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Dr. Edwin Moreno Riz.

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Dr. Edwin is a leadership visionary.

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He's also an Air Force veteran, and thank you so much for your service.

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Thank you.

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Dr. Edwin, I appreciate that so much for our freedoms.

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His life work centers centers.

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On helping leaders create.

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What he calls a human intelligent workplace.

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A place where people.

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Feel valued. People feel understood.

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And people are inspired to bring their best selves forward.

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He is a respected author.

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A global speaker, and senior fellow with the conference board, guiding organizations to balance the power

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technology with the heart of humanity.

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In a world that is increasingly shaped,

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By artificial intelligence, Dr. Marino reminds us

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That our greatest strength

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still lies in our human

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intelligence, and how we use it.

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to lead. Connect.

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and achieve unity.

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Together. But first…

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Before we delve into this insightful discussion, let me briefly introduce my company.

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Reality. Focused dynamics, where it all began.

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As you can see on the screen, it's my gift to you.

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Let's talk about the hardcore problem with anger.

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Hate and prejudice.

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A lot of times there's frustration.

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This disconnection and prejudgment.

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We need to stop that. We need to look at the world in a better way.

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As Dr. Mina will talk later, it's about the human intelligence.

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But I also call the heart.

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belt intelligence.

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So if you go out to that site, you'll see on the left, or you can get it right off the screen now, the QR code.

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is my Achieving Unity Guide.

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I'd love for you to see it. Read it. Get back to me.

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Let's talk further about how we can do it.

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And, if I can come talk to your organization,

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Your corporation, your association, organization, your university,

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I'd love to come talk with you. On the right, as I mentioned before, my blog.

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That's where my articles are all stored.

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So please go out there, check out my articles, give me feedback.

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Let's start conversation. Let's start the discussion. Let's talk about it more.

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Achieving Unity's success formula, this is weekly podcast number 60. Yes, we've been here for a year and 8 episodes.

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Thank you for everyone who has joined over and over. We appreciate it.

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And I know a lot of you can't attend during the day, so you watch it on the replay, the recording.

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Which you can get off of YouTube. Thank you so much.

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We are here, every Wednesday.

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1PM Pacific time, 4 p.m. Eastern Time,

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Come back, put us on your calendar. We'd love to see you this week, as we are.

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And to see you next week. Please come back.

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But here's what it's all about. The company. Reality-focused Dynamics.

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Success Focus Solutions.

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As you see on our logo on the slide,

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It truly reflects the core of what we do and how we stand firm.

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Reality-focused. We want to make sure that we're focused on what the realities are that we're dealing with today.

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The dynamics that puts them into motion. And as we do that, we work on the success,

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Focus Solution.

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Notice how focused is the heart,

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That's because everything that we explore

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From reality-focused dynamics,

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To success, Focus Solutions,

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revolve around clear,

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Intentional direction.

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In fact, the concept of being focused is so core to us.

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That it is even reflected in our business phone number.

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303-362-8733, if you look at it on your phone dial, yes, even on your cell phones, they still have those letters by the numbers.

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It spells 303 FOCUSED on your phone pad.

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We'll believe that by truly being focused,

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on what matters. We can create meaningful change and achieve

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lasting unity.

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We can show you…

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proven. Compassionate strategies that turns conflict

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into lasting harmony. We can do this at home.

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at work, and in every relationship that matters.

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Are you ever frustrated by tension?

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With that frustration? How about arguments?

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Our seven-step roadmap gives you the tools to move.

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From conflict to collaboration.

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quickly and confidently.

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Are you craving stronger trust?

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Stronger connection?

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We help you discover communication tactics that build respect.

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repair relationships and unify teams and families alike.

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It's not just corporate, it's not just social.

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comes into families, into couples.

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Come talk to us. Let's transform conflict.

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Interconnection. Together.

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achieving unity.

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As we know, unity inspires us in our homes,

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It shapes society. The society around us.

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It also transforms the workplaces.

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We help you turn that frustration

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And to understanding.

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Have you ever wanted to say, or maybe heard someone else say,

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What the frustration?

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Okay, they may not have said frustration,

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What we do is we help you find the value,

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in their actions. Instead of reacting,

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And that anger, or again,

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Those frustrations that seem to come about.

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Each and every day.

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We show how anger, A-N-G-E-R, holds no value.

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It's just actions, not gaining effective results.

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Yes, A-N-G-E-R, anger.

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Actions, not gaining effective results.

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Have you ever been proud of being angry?

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Have you ever seen someone that was angry that you thought, wow, I want to be like them?

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Well, too many times we do. Too many times we follow that because we see someone else do it, and we think it's okay.

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But it's not. Anger truly has no value.

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Yes, life happens.

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Life happens in every relationship.

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From personal, to professional,

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From parenting time, to partnerships,

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In the boardroom, in the bedroom,

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And in every room in between,

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So we show you how to embrace those challenges.

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We want you to encourage.

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A more inspired and inclusive future.

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Again, remember, EII, encourage.

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Inspire and include others.

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One vision, one goal.

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Achieving unity in every area.

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of life.

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What's our call to action? What do we do?

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Well, first, let's ditch the drama.

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Let's get stuff done.

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We will allow you to turn your life.

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We'll even show you how. You've turned your life of what may seem at times like a dumpster fire.

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to a well-oiled machine.

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Achieving unity is the path.

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to stronger relationships.

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Inspired leadership.

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and lasting change. Lifetime improvements.

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We help you with coaching, consulting,

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Courses and keynote speeches.

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Contact us. Contact us today.

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www.achievingunity.com.

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Or again, call me, 303-362-8733.

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But that's, again, 303 focused on your phone pad.

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There's also a QR code there you can use.

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However you want to do it, let's get in touch.

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Let's make this world a better place.

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One person, one step.

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At a time.

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Our next podcast, and again, like I say, we are weekly.

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So put us on your calendars, come back each week,

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Next week, we'll have Ronald Stein.

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Did we talk about energy literacy?

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What is energy? What is renewable energy?

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What are we doing? What about this oils and the gases that we use?

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How are they working for us, and how are they impacting us?

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Mr. Sal will come back and talk to us about that, so please join in.

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The following week, Debbie Fennell.

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Building lists through relationships.

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What are your relationships? What are your lists?

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Are you an entrepreneur? Do you have a small business? What do you list there?

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Who are your friends? Do you have a list of friends?

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Let's talk about them. Find out more, come back. Let's build our list.

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Who's important? Whether it's personal,

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are professional, at home or business,

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Let's talk about it.

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Well, Lori just contacted me today, she's not going to be able to make it, but we do have another person that's going to fill in her spot.

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So please come back, I'll let you know more about that next week.

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Thanks, the Lord for letting me know. I'm sorry she's not gonna be here. We'll try to get her in in 2026.

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The next week, Anita Sarda.

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What inspires you to lift others?

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Where does your encouragement come from?

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What inspires you to lift others?

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Nita will come talk to us about that on December 3rd.

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Make sure to be here for that also.

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The following week, December 10th,

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Steve Grossman.

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Selling yourself.

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Personally, and professionally.

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Well, it's not just a business. We also was on the personal side. So come on back.

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Talk to us with Steve Rosemans here on 1210. Again…

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Every week. Love to see you here. If you can't make it,

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Watch us on YouTube. We'll have the link out there for you also.

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Thank you.

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But now for the big time. This is the guy that I think I've been just so impressed with.

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Work that he and I do is so much in parallel.

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As far as in helping others. But he has a way, a step.

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the boss. We are enabling a human intelligence

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HI, a workplace in the growing air… yeah, the growing era,

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of AI, who helps us get the two together.

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Dr. Edwin Marino, who is…

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is a leadership missionary,

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Executive coach and workplace strategist dedicated

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The Shaping the Future of Human Intelligence.

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HI. In an increasingly driven…

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We're all increasingly driven by artificial intelligence, the AI.

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Again, an Air Force veteran with extensive experience across aerospace,

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Government, utilities, IT, military, higher education,

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and Fortune 100 companies,

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Dr. Marino brings both depth,

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And diversity to his work.

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He's the founder and president of…

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Human intelligent, HR workplace.

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An organization is devoted

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to helping leaders help themselves by focusing on leadership.

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Leadership development, executive coaching.

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And emerging human capital trends.

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Dr. Marino is also a published author.

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speaker, and consultant, who has shared his insights at major conferences across the U.S.

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And internationally, around the world, both in English,

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and Spanish. His URL is down at the bottom right of the screen.

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Human, intelligentWorkplace.com.

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Please go out there and check it out, find out more about him, and I'll give that to you again at the end of the podcast.

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Please help me welcome Dr. Edwin Marino-Ruiz.

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Thank you so much, Mark.

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Dr. Edwin, how are you?

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I'm very… we're very, very, very appreciative. I was listening to that. I said, who is that guy? But thank you, Marcus. I'm so glad to be here, and uh… really, you know, as you and I were talking earlier, it's kind of interesting how

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We work in parallel, but at the end of the day, it's helping humanity help itself.

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Help humanity help itself. That's so powerful right there. And those are the HI, Helping Humanity,

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Help itself, HI, help itself.

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Because that's what we have to do, and…

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They're gonna tell you, it's… it's amazing getting to know you,

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and learning about you. Welcome to the podcast.

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I have seen so much

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Did you associate worn so many hats, more than most.

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Air Force veteran, and again, thank you so much for your service and the freedoms that we have today, that you have taken part in.

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Making sure that we continue to have…

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Your professor, an author,

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a coach, and now the founder of a human intelligent workplace.

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Tell me, how do you usually introduce yourself?

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When people ask, so…

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What do you do, Ellen?

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So, as you introduce yourself to our wonderful audience,

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What do you do?

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So, thanks. Um, interestingly, um, I actually, as a kid, growing up in New York City, going to Catholic school, wanted to be a doctor.

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Because I wanted to help people.

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long… fast forward, um, went to Puerto Rico, started in college, actually, in pre-med, but then I joined the service a few years later, so I broke my grandmother's heart, because she thought I was going to graduate, and was going to be the doctor of the family. I promised her I would bring back a degree, and I did.

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But I took a detour, and along the way, I actually backed up into the field of what today is known as diversity. Back then it was known as human relations,

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And that's where I got in the Air Force doing a lot of consulting work, doing leadership development work,

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And once I got out of the Air Force, I continued in that space.

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So, when people ask me, what do you do? I do two things today. One is, I help leaders help themselves and their organizations.

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And because I also do some college teaching, part-time teaching, I tell them I help my students help themselves.

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I don't give exams in my classes and things like that, so that should be a good thing for students, because as I tell them, I'm not here to help you memorize, I'm here to help you critically analyze what's going on in your workplace.

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And how can you do better in that environment going forward? Particularly when we spend, it is estimated, we will spend 90,000 working… waking hours of our adult life at work.

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:24.000
So, the challenge there, and the opportunity, is how do you make it a great place?

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:32.000
And that's what I've been on a journey of, and we'll speak at whoever will let me speak and write about and continue to

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:38.000
push this envelope forward about that we just need a better, great workplace at the end of the day.

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:43.000
Um, because work is the fifth cause of death, unfortunately, due to stress.

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:49.000
So how do we help leaders create a better environment overall? So, bottom line, helping leaders help themselves.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:53.000
That is excellent. I think that's something that we need so much of.

00:16:53.000 --> 00:17:01.000
And I sincerely appreciate what you just mentioned also, because I was just cool, as I mentioned, a bachelor's degree, I have a master's degree.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.000
Learned a lot, I memorized a lot.

00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000
But I also forgot a lot.

00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:11.000
Except… there's people sometimes will tell you,

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:16.000
It's what… how you make them feel that they remember the most.

00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:21.000
And that's the same thing I think we get… that we receive from all of our education.

00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:23.000
How it makes it… how it makes us feel?

00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.000
And how it applies to us

00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.000
to take forward. Anyone can memorize

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:35.000
It's in PowerPoint, anybody can memorize how to do Word and Excel?

00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.000
But it takes a special art, I think,

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.000
do some of the things that you're doing,

00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.000
And taking that forward.

00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.000
I think that the whole process…

00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000
the lessons that were learned, and I know

00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:54.000
Let them learn from you. What lessons from that experience that you have

00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:00.000
have shaped you and help you shape leaders, uh, leaders today and tomorrow.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:10.000
Yeah, so, um, you know, it's interesting. I wrote an article and have it on my website. The more organizations change, the more they remain the same. So you and I have been around the block enough now

00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.000
Where, you know, we… both of us are BI, before internet, um, and… and so…

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000
Yeah.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:21.000
Back in the day, you know, when I first got into the field of doing leadership development work,

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.000
I remember one of the biggest issues back then was communications.

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:32.000
Fast forward 40 years later, what's one of the biggest issues today? Communications. Lack of communi…

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:40.000
is from leaders toward their workforce. You've got this ongoing onslaught of change that organizations have to do

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:44.000
But our brains are wired for certainty.

00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:51.000
And uncertainty just became the defining word this year for the second time in 35 years.

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.000
Only the pandemic was it higher.

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.000
So, when we have so much uncertainty,

00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:01.000
And the workforce is looking for leaders to care about them.

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:05.000
to really listen, listen to understand, not to respond.

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.000
And to demonstrate empathy and compassion,

00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.000
All of those kinds of things.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:16.000
Um, I think that raises the bar for leaders. However, having said all of that,

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:19.000
This is not new. We've been here before,

00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:22.000
And so, I feel like, you know what?

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:30.000
The Lord's blessed me and given me an opportunity to continue to take that message forward, um, and help organizations who wherever I can.

00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:38.000
Um, because just last night, as an example, I'm teaching an organizational change class for Kaiser University in Latin America.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.000
Wow.

00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.000
And as I'm listening to these students, um…

00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:53.000
Uh, getting a certificate in management and leadership. I'm listening to their issues, and, you know, I've got in there doctors and pharmacists and engineers and so forth,

00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:57.000
Some of them are founding owners of a business.

00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:07.000
Um, and what I'm hearing from them say is sometimes the owner or the… my… my boss treats me disrespectful, and I'm like,

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.000
I'm sorry to say it's not new,

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:15.000
But there's ways to work around that, and uh… and I started to share some insights as to, maybe,

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:22.000
how to work through that, but unfortunately, that is still… it's an unfortunate, fortunate reality that we both face.

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:27.000
Um, you and I and the work we do, that we'll always have opportunities to help others help themselves.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.000
That is so true, and the way to handle that, and when you are

00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.000
treated disrespectfully.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.000
ways that you can respond.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.000
in a positive professional format.

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.000
Nope, the relationship grow, because…

00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.000
As you know, as I think everyone here in the audience knows,

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:47.000
Life does happen, as I mentioned earlier.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.000
Things happen. We come into work,

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:53.000
So my pose in front of us, there's road rage, whatever could be out there.

00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:55.000
where we carry.

00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.000
that frustration, that emotion.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.000
impacts our day,

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.000
As well as everyone around us.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.000
Professionally, personally, and socially.

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000
So I like what you're talking about.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.000
But let me ask you this. Human?

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.000
Intelligent workplace.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:16.000
That's a powerful phrase.

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.000
Now, for someone hearing it for the first time,

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:22.000
Let's say… over morning coffee.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.000
How do you explain what it means to them?

00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.000
human intelligent workplace.

00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.000
In plain English.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Yeah, so… yeah, that's a good question. Since…

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Since you made… you set up the scenario, we're having coffee, that means we get an opportunity to kind of engage in a discussion.

00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:54.000
So let me share with you what gave me this… the backdrop that gave me this idea to create this human intelligent workplace. And it just happened to, you know, sometimes things just work the way they work. At the same time, when I came up with the name for this business, AI was kicking off.

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.000
Um, really exploding. Um,

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:05.000
But something that's going on, and I think the tipping point was the pandemic. Something that was going on, I just talked to you about uncertainty.

00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:20.000
But something that was going on is, as you introduced me, there are those that call themselves futurists. I call myself a trends advisor. I study the trends, I look and see what's going on, and then I put them up as a mirror to organizations and go, so how are you addressing these?

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:25.000
How well are you taking care of these? So, for example, just some trends. We have an aging world.

00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:33.000
a multi-genera… and with that comes an aging workforce, and we have a multi-generational workforce, four generations in a workplace.

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:41.000
We have a… behind that aging workforce, we have a growing, more multicultural workforce. In this country, particularly Latinos.

00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:55.000
So, we have that. And then on top of that, we have a growing skill shortage, because we have the aging workforce that's kind of retiring, doing something different now. So we have that growing skill shortage. So those are just some of the trends that are happening there.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.000
But the same time, part of the bot drop is

00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:04.000
You've got the artificial intelligence, you've got the skill shortage I just mentioned, you've got increased workforce stress,

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:09.000
70% of managers are stressed out, and 40% are willing to step down.

00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:14.000
Um, and by the way, for 70% of the workforce, their biggest stressor is their boss.

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:22.000
So, as I looked at that, and I looked at my journey over the last 40 years of being involved in leadership development and helping leaders help themselves,

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:29.000
That's when I came up with this organization, and then I said, now I need to define that. So this is how I've defined it.

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.000
A human intelligent workplace is one where you have

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:44.000
Where leaders demonstrate effective leadership behaviors, they create an organizational culture where work is experienced as one to be engaged, while collaborating with their diverse team.

00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:50.000
That's a piece of it there. The second piece is a workforce where they feel psychologically safe,

00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:00.000
Listen to, and they find satisfaction in the work and the organization they work for. Now, some of their key words there that I've underlined in the definition, if they go to my website, they can see it.

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:21.000
Um, that are key, and it has extensive research and books written about it. I've written some of them. Effective leadership behaviors. We know what that looks like. We know that if I work for Mark, I hope he's a good boss and he's gonna treat me with dignity and respect. Organizational culture, everybody knows what that is. They can describe their culture. Is it a healthy one or a toxic one?

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:26.000
When it comes to collaborating with diverse teams, how does a leader, how does Mark as a boss,

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.000
Manage the diversity of his team.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:39.000
And then when it comes to psychologically safety, one of the biggest values out there that most organizations have, or proclaim, is innovation and creativity.

00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:48.000
What they forget is that if you're gonna profess that you want an innovative and creative environment, then you need to be open to a 50-50 chance of failure.

00:24:48.000 --> 00:25:01.000
Because when you're trying something for the first time, being innovative and creative, there's a 50-50 chance of failure. So people need to have psychological safety, that if I make a mistake, I'm not gonna… my hand's not gonna be slapped.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:06.000
Listen to, because unfortunately, in the book, The Mind of the Leader,

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:09.000
Only 5% of leaders are found to be effective listeners.

00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:20.000
5%. So, that's an important piece, and then obviously finding satisfaction. Now, some of those, some people may say, well, that's all theoretical. I would argue that there's some anecdotal

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.000
reality to that. If we think about it, why would we not

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.000
Personally, get up, go to work, and want to find satisfaction.

00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.000
Purpose is the big word today.

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:40.000
People are looking for more purpose than anything else. I love your whole thing about focus, success, reality, dynamics, and solutions, because people are now focused on, how can I…

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.000
you know, the pandemic taught us that

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.000
Thank you.

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Life is short, so how can… how can I do something that's bigger than me,

00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:59.000
than just punching in to go to work. So, because of that, I've made this… I've come up with this and said, and even created a questionnaire for people to use and go,

00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.000
Based on what the trends I'm sharing with you,

00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:17.000
How, as an organization, is your organization truly human intelligent? Is it really, yes, taking advantage of the technology in the era of growing era of AI, how human intelligent is your organization?

00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.000
And sometimes, don't they take that word?

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.000
But here, intelligence,

00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:27.000
And then they go back, like we're talking about, to the culture of intelligence. That's smart. How much did they memorize?

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.000
No, we need to understand…

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:31.000
Human intelligence.

00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.000
is understanding the human side of it, right?

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Exactly, exactly. And I'll give you a perfect example of that. Today's workforce is looking for a few things in particular. You don't have to, you know, you can go check out my website. Like you, I have podcasts and articles and so forth I've done out there.

00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:55.000
People are looking for autonomy, purpose, and mastery. There's a great TED talk out there by Dan Pink on the puzzle of motivation.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Autonomy. I don't want to be micromanaged.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:05.000
Purpose. Do something bigger than me, and mastery, I want to continue to learn. Whether I'm 25 or 75, I want to continue to learn.

00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:14.000
So that's one. Secondly, they want happiness at work. When you and I went into the workforce, I'm pretty sure happiness was not one of the reasons why.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:26.000
But today, there's a big push for that. So, happiness. The other one is appreciation. They just… the number one thing that came out of a TED Talk 10 years ago, the 2030 Workforce Crisis by the Boston Consulting Group,

00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:36.000
And they asked, what are you looking for? And your next employer? Number one, appreciation. A simple thank you. By the way, pay came out number 8.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:42.000
So, there's that. And then, of course, 8 out of 10 employees are looking for more well-being than pay.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.000
So, that's the psychology of today's workforce that's changing, and that's why it's driving

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:54.000
Hey, Mr. Miss Boss, whatever level you are, from the frontline supervisor to the CEO,

00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:12.000
What type of environment, organizational culture, are you creating a healthy environment in your workplace, particularly when work is the fifth cause of death due to stress, because there's so much uncertainty, so many changes, and so forth? And if you can get people on your side feeling comfortable psychologically safe and so forth,

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:22.000
Change will move forward better. By the way, as much as organizations have to change, 60… it's been found that 66% of change efforts fail.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.000
Two-thirds of change efforts fail.

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:37.000
So think about all the money that companies are wasting, and they keep thinking about, well, it's a new tool, it's a new process, it's the reorganization, and this, that, and the other. I'm like, no, it's the people at the end of the day that you've got to be focused on.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.000
And I like what you're saying there, too, because when you say 60% of it fails,

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.000
How many times are they training…

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.000
the people that are doing the work.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:50.000
And they're not training the C-suite.

00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.000
The CEO, CIO, CFO, the senior managers, the directors.

00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.000
How many of them know what's even being taught?

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:03.000
At the level of the people that are truly making the money for the organization.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.000
How many of the leaders

00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.000
In the C-suite, the directors.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.000
senior managers. No.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:14.000
What? Employees.

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.000
are being taught.

00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Exactly. And you know something, Mark? Let me share a little story with you.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:27.000
There's some research coming… there was some research that came out that showed a disconnect between executives and frontline employees.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.000
Um, but I saw that…

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:39.000
up close and personal, a couple of years back, I was up in Canada speaking to the C-suite, literally in front of me. The CEO was sitting right in front of me here, like you.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:42.000
Um, and he had his top execs there, there were about

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:56.000
30 or 40 of them. We were talking about unconscious bias was the topic. And so, somehow we got to the topic, okay, out of curiosity, I asked them, in small groups, I want you to average out…

00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.000
Give yourself a score from 1 to 5.

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:07.000
How effective do you believe you are as leaders? From 5 being the best, 1 being, uh, poor? And then I said, okay, out of curiosity, there's

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:09.000
30, 40 of you in here,

00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Rate the managers out there that are not here today. Rate them. I call this the perception problem.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:23.000
And I said, okay, on a 1 to 5. And then I asked them, now, what do you think the workforce is ranked… how would they rank or rate,

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:26.000
the management team in general.

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:33.000
It was… and then I got the average scores up, put it up on a flip chart, just to put that back as a mirror up to them. And it was

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:38.000
It was eye-opening. It wasn't eye-opening, but it was eye-opening for them.

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.000
Because when they looked at their average scores, they were 4.3.

00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.000
When they looked at how they rate their management that wasn't around them, they rated them 3.9.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:52.000
And when they rated what they thought the employees thought of management, it came out to 3.4.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:09.000
So it's, we're good, they need help, and we know… the workforce knows that they need help. So that whole gap perception gap, sometimes, that you just alluded to, I saw it up close and personal, even though I had read quite a bit about research that was taking place.

00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:16.000
So it was in a way, a reinforcer for me to see, oh, so it's not just the research. I'm seeing it right here in living color.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:24.000
Uh, type of thing. And so you're right. Sometimes there's that disconnect between the senior executive teams, unfortunately, and the frontline employees.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.000
That is well said.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:34.000
Devin, you said… you've shared so much out there that it's so true that we need to…

00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:38.000
just blasts everywhere, and in the most professional way, of course, and…

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.000
As I think I hear you saying…

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.000
that as AI grows smarter,

00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.000
Organizations must get more

00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:53.000
human. And I think I'm touching it into some of the things you're just saying.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Why is it such a tough sell?

00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.000
for some leaders. That…

00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:03.000
They must get more, you know.

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:12.000
Because, unfortunately, in some organizations, more than not, they're not being evaluated on being more human. And I'll give you two quick examples.

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.000
A ying-ying and yang.

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Um, interestingly enough, you may have heard this already,

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:20.000
Amazon is cutting 30,000 corporate jobs.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.000
And they're calling it voluntarily quit.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.000
And they're saying it's because of AI.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:36.000
Now, so that's one way to do it, and I've talked to people that have worked there, and it's not from… based on what they're saying, I don't know what Glassdoor says, but based on what they tell me, their experience was not a good one.

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:46.000
And then there's another example. This one was about Costco, and it was a letter that was sent out from the CEO to this one particular store that went union.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:55.000
And the letter he wrote to the store after they went union, he said, while we're disappointed in the results in Norfolk, this is where the facility was,

00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:10.000
He said, we're more disappointed in ourselves as managers and leaders. It constitutes a failure on our part. Interestingly, I used to work at the Truist Leadership Institute, and I was talking one time with one of the executives there. He said, I'm not a big union fan, I don't like it, and I said,

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:16.000
We do leadership development. The only reason unions exist is because there's a void. Management has not…

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:22.000
to do what they need to do. Because if employees didn't need to go look for somebody else to look, listen to them,

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:28.000
to care for them, uh, to create a happy, great place to be,

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:32.000
You wouldn't have a union. Um, or at least you'd have less chance of a union.

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.000
Uh, Starbucks, who's gonna…

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:36.000
Exactly!

00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:38.000
You wouldn't have the need for it. Unions are there for a purpose.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.000
Yeah, exactly!

00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.000
They're there because of what's not working. I'm sorry, go ahead.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:51.000
Well, I was just thinking of Starbucks, one of the busiest Starbucks is here in Disney. As you know, I'm here in Florida, um, over by Downtown Disney. It's got a new name to it now.

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.000
And they just formed a union.

00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:04.000
Something was happening there, they weren't taking care of them. This is a busy store with all the tourists coming in, getting coffee left and right. I've been there, so I've seen how busy it is. And yet, it came out on the local news,

00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.000
It just became a union.

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:12.000
So, and I actually did a walkout. So again, if you're not taking care of the workforce,

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:18.000
then… and what's happening is the managers are being held accountable for short-term deliverables,

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:23.000
I would suggest, what about if we start measuring them on employee engagement?

00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:33.000
How the employees are feeling about how they're being treated. You know, look at your turnover rate. Um, all of those kinds of things. How inclusive of an environment are you creating?

00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:48.000
Uh, in your organization. Because, by the way, if I exclude you, it literally goes, lights up toward the pain part of our brain. If I don't invite you to a call or to a meeting that you thought you should have been at, the first thing you're gonna think of is, why did they invite me?

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:53.000
I should be part of that meeting, so you have felt excluded, and it's literally because your brain is

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:56.000
firing up around the pain part of our brain.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:35:00.000
So well said. That's so true. And so, kind of…

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:06.000
between the… let's call it the executive coaching that you're doing, your speaking,

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.000
And you're writing, I can only imagine how many…

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.000
leaders that you work with.

00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:19.000
And as you talk about some of the issues and some of the gaps and reason for unions, they don't just…

00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.000
pop up, they're voted in, they're there for a reason.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:27.000
What are some of the most common… not… I don't put this just on unions, but…

00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:31.000
Overall, what's most common leadership myth

00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.000
But you still here.

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:36.000
that makes you shake your head.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:39.000
And smile.

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.000
Yeah, um, that's a real…

00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:44.000
That's a good one.

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.000
That's a tough question. I know to come up all of a sudden, but…

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:52.000
So, you know, it's not tough. It's one of those, too bad we only have an hour. It's actually a good question.

00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:05.000
Well, one of the things I've heard a lot of is, I told you earlier, we have multi-generationals in the workplace. So I'll give you a funny story on that. I remember, uh, it's happened to me over time, where people said, well, you know, this young generation, they're just not loyal.

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:17.000
One of them is our unconscious bias, whether it's against women, whether it's against older people, AARP is arguing about, you know, ageism is taking place, or it's, again, against the younger people, or different minorities, and so forth.

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:34.000
And I remember a few times it's happened to me where an older gentleman will say, you know, it's just this young generation, they're just not loyal, they want to be vice president next week, and this and that and the other, and I'm sitting there smiling, and I go, that's an interesting point. And I said, so who raised him?

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:35.000
Who raised them?

00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:50.000
And all of a sudden, there's silence. Well, no, no, it's not my kids, it's everybody else. Oh, of course, it's everybody else, type of thing. So part of the problem there is their own unconscious biases that they have, because we see the world not as it is, but as we are.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.000
We see the world not as it is, but as we are.

00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:05.000
So, you might say a word, and there's two people in front of you, but we're gonna interpret that word a different way, because of our own personal experiences, good, bad, indifferent type of thing. So I think that's one of the issues.

00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:15.000
The other one is, you know, AI is gonna take over the world, and so they think about some of my favorite movies. I was just watching Terminator the other night, they were showing that again.

00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.000
But, you know, interestingly enough, the data doesn't back that up.

00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Um, I'll give you an example.

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:25.000
When the PC came into existence, a lifetime ago, it seems like. It seems like it was 100 years ago,

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:31.000
When it came into existence, it eliminated 3.5 million jobs were created, almost 20.

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.000
And the World Economic Forum has just said that in…

00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:37.000
But can I clarify what you just said?

00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:38.000
Yeah.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.000
Eliminated $3.5 million, but created 20 million.

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:42.000
Exactly. Exactly.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:49.000
Right? Yeah. It has 3.5 million to 20, it's 3.5 million jobs.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:50.000
Exactly.

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:56.000
to 20 million jobs, because again, those who learned how to use that computer expanded. So that's… it's huge, like we're running through with AI today. Sorry to interrupt you, I just wanted to clarify that.

00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.000
That was a huge growth.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:03.000
No, no, no, good clarification, but it's not only that, there's jobs that didn't exist at the time.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:08.000
I mean, if you remember the old Texas instrument calculators,

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:11.000
Where are they today? I mean, they still are out there some.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:23.000
But most accountants don't use that. You've got Excel, you've got Access, and things like that to do formulas and so forth. So, to give you that example, but the World Economic Forum just came forward and said, AI will eliminate 92 million jobs.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:30.000
But it will create 170 million jobs by 2030. That's three and a half… three years and two months away.

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:35.000
Or, uh, yeah, pretty much, type of thing. And I'll give you a perfect example where that just occurred.

00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.000
IBM laid off 8,000 employees.

00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:46.000
Because of AI, and literally had to rehire 8,000 employees because of the new work that was created by AI. So AII took some of the redundant,

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:51.000
boring jobs that maybe people didn't want to do or need to do,

00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:59.000
And created all this other work. And so, the skill shortage is going to get magnified, because now there's going to be new jobs that today do not exist.

00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:12.000
And so there, it's, how do I help these people work through it? And then when you, you know, there's interesting research out there in different companies. Microsoft is one of them, saying, what are the skill sets we're going to need going forward?

00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:20.000
What they're talking about is critical and critical thinking, emotional intelligence, flexibility, analytical judgment. Those are all people skills.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.000
that are not going to be replaced by AI.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:31.000
AI will help us make decisions faster, give us more data, but still, you and I are going to have to sit down and go, okay, based on the data it just spit out,

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:38.000
you know, which way should we go here? It gave us a suggestion, but now we gotta color it with our humanized version of it,

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:44.000
And try to get that. So that's some of the things that I see that's going to be happening, too, going forward.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:48.000
I like what you're saying. That's absolutely right. It's, again, as I mentioned earlier,

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.000
AI is not going to take anyone's job itself.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:58.000
It's about learning AI, artificial intelligence, learning how to use it. Just today, I showed a person

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:02.000
how AI works, and what she can do with it that…

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.000
She was all about getting some things off of Facebook. I said, off of Facebook?

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:10.000
Let me show where you can obtain the information that you're looking for,

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.000
And find the resources where the information came from, not from…

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:19.000
you know, Jane or John down the street, but actually good information.

00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.000
Because the more you learn how to use AI,

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:26.000
As you're saying, with your HI, your human intelligence,

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:31.000
The more you're going to be able to do, the more you're going to be able to accomplish.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.000
Exactly.

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.000
It's… it's a great step forward,

00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.000
For people who are not afraid to learn.

00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:41.000
You mentioned Starbucks. What happens when you go to Starbucks?

00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:46.000
You have a training program. It happens when you go to any job. It's a training program.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:50.000
You get paid for what you can do.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000
based on your knowledge, and you've got to learn that.

00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.000
So let's learn AI together.

00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:00.000
And please, let me tell you, I use 6 different AIs I've got on my machine right now.

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.000
So if 6 different AI programs.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:06.000
We all work pretty much the same, but there's also… every one of them…

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:14.000
I'm exaggerating the number, but it seems like there's a thousand people that has… that have classes on how to use AI.

00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:15.000
You're right.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.000
There's a lot of free classes out there. You don't have to pay $1,000 for an AI.

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:23.000
And you don't have to go to one of these free classes that's also selling you the next course. It's going to save you another $1,000.

00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.000
Get into AI. You could ask AI,

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.000
How do you use AI? And I just showed that to a person this morning, how to do that.

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.000
But… let me go to another subject here a little bit.

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.000
As it seems you're also a senior fellow.

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:41.000
With a conference board. Maybe you can tell us about the conference board.

00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.000
But what kind of conversations?

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.000
are happening right now.

00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:50.000
there with the conference board around the human side of AI.

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:54.000
And on leadership.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:42:07.000
Yeah, thanks, that's a good question. Um, interestingly, one of the things that, um, as a senior fellow there, we've been talking about a variety of things. They have these different forums, and I happen to be… it's no longer called DE&I, it's called something else, but…

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:11.000
Um, there's these different forms that look at the human capital issues.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:13.000
Whatever they may be, whether it's leadership, whether it's…

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:17.000
organizational change, and in our case, it was DE&I.

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:27.000
And, interestingly enough, um, what they're doing a lot of research and coming out and saying, for example, I was on… I was listening on a webinar not too long ago,

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:33.000
Where they were saying, well, you know, as an example, some people want DE&I to die and go away. It's not.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:42.000
What some companies have done is just kind of put it under the radar, not publicized it, because there is this demographic wave that you can't stop.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:51.000
You have an aging workforce, you have a multicultural, younger workforce growing. That's the future of the workplace.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:55.000
So, how do you capitalize on that? And that's one.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:09.000
Even this aging workforce, Forbes came out with an article, um, in 2023 that basically said that the largest segment of people coming back into the workforce, in spite of ageism, are people over the age of 75.

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:20.000
They're still trying… they're remaining active, they've got things to contribute, they want to pay it forward. So, the conference board is addressing these various human capital issues,

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.000
And I'm seeing that it's…

00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:41.000
more here than ever, it's gonna be more needed than ever. Yes, AI is going to change, technology's gonna change us, but it's no different than the PC changed the way we did work. Maybe differently, maybe to a different level. Um, and we will adapt, and there'll be new skills that are going to be needed. Uh, we have a skill shortage growing.

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:52.000
AI is going to magnify that even more so. And so the conference board comes at it from all those different angles and tries to share with their client organizations

00:43:52.000 --> 00:44:05.000
Um, how do you need to be prepared for the future? What are some of the things you're considering? What's happening in your industry? Make sure you don't become the blockbuster of the future, or any of those other organizations that were great at one time, but disappeared.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.000
Because they didn't adapt to the change that was going on.

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:11.000
They didn't learn and adapt, right?

00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:15.000
That's so true of what you're talking about.

00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.000
Or… I'm sorry.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:17.000
Is…

00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:18.000
Go ahead.

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:28.000
And it's not… in some cases, it wasn't that they didn't learn, it's they were stuck in their old paradigm and didn't want to shift. So I constantly tell organizations, get out of the 20th century mindset,

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:32.000
And start thinking, we're in 2026, almost.

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:45.000
Think differently today. You've got these new generations, you've got this new technology, and what, as Marshall Goldsberg wrote in his book, what got you here is not going to get you there. So figure out a way how to adapt and change

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:51.000
Um, because if not, you, you know, your competition will, will, uh, will beat you out.

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:59.000
like you just said, we need to stretch this podcast out to about 75 hours, because we could talk so much about this process,

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.000
That's what you just said,

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:08.000
What got you here is not going to get you to where you want to be tomorrow, but that's what I'm talking about, learning.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.000
If you're going to learn, you'll be able to go to the tomorrow that you want to see.

00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:17.000
If you don't learn, as I talked about, you'll be back in that culture.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:20.000
cultures that we have in the 2020…

00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.000
A 2020 timeframe. It was…

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.000
things that we've had in the 1900s.

00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:30.000
It's just gonna go back that far. That's a pretty big example, Mark, but it is.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:33.000
What we were doing in 2020?

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:39.000
All the encounters that we had, the problems that we had, to what we had in 2025, to what we had back in the 1900s,

00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:43.000
What are we carrying back from them that we brought into this technical world?

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.000
What happened with us with COVID,

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:49.000
And then where we are today, what did we bring over that we…

00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:53.000
could have learned different, and we could have improved.

00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:57.000
That's a lot of our problem, because it's all on the learning,

00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:03.000
And then being able to use it, as I see what you're talking about, modeling human intelligence,

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:06.000
That's where we've got to grow for. We've got to learn.

00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.000
I will never get out of that habit.

00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:12.000
Or that pattern, right?

00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:23.000
Yeah, yeah. You've got to kind of step back, and some things I've been writing quite a bit about, I used to work at the Neural Leadership Institute, and Ironically, how the world turns. When I was

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.000
younger and wanted to be a doctor. I literally wanted to be a neurosurgeon.

00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:37.000
I took a detour and went a different way. Um, but I still ended up getting an undergrad in psychology and continued in the world, in the field and the profession that I ended up in.

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:46.000
And so, fast forward to when I worked at the Neural Leadership Institute and got a lot of exposure to neuroscience and neural leadership and why that's important and so forth.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:47:03.000
And how this thing up here is not just to put on a hat, and how to capitalize and utilize that. So, leaders have an opportunity to really come to grips with and learn, how do I create a brain-friendly workplace? How do I create a healthy workplace? How do you create a human intelligent workplace?

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:27.000
So that people feel psychologically safe, the culture's a healthy culture, the leaders demonstrating effective behaviors. As a leader, I don't have to know all the answers. I need to be able to capitalize on my diverse team and get the answers from them, and not shut anybody down. Those kinds of things. And I think that's going to be important. Because I already told you earlier, for 70% of the workforce, the boss is their biggest stressor.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:35.000
Which is one of the reasons in the book, The Mind of the Leader, a third of the workforce said they would give up a paycheck to see their boss fired.

00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.000
Think about that. So, for your listeners, if you're a boss,

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.000
What would your team say?

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.000
How would they… if they… what words would they use to describe your leadership qualities, your leadership behaviors?

00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.000
How you're treating them at the end of the day. And, oh, by the way, how are you taking care of yourself?

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:57.000
I would love to get more into that, too, but the psychology of that, and ask people about what do you not like about your boss?

00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:02.000
But it almost like I talked about with my mother, when I was growing up, it would pick so much up from her.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:04.000
how much am I like her?

00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:09.000
As a parent, how much does that person, like their boss, but they don't like their boss?

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:13.000
So bringing those things into reality, and as I say, learning about that.

00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.000
is so important.

00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:17.000
I agree.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:18.000
One of the things that you define

00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.000
And effective leadership, as I see it,

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:25.000
Help me out here. As modeling human intelligent behaviors.

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.000
So if we could, what might be one behavior

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:31.000
That the leaders that are listening, that hear this,

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.000
You can start practicing tomorrow,

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:42.000
That moves them closer to that ideal of modeling human intelligent behaviors.

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.000
So, I'll give… I'll give you 3, and you just said one of them.

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:54.000
The first thing to do is listen to your workforce. Listen to your team, and listen to understand, not to respond. That's number one.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:59.000
The second one is empathy. Be empathetic. Try to understand where Mark is coming from.

00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.000
And the third one is compassion.

00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:04.000
Which means, how can I help?

00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:10.000
Or, um, here's a way that I can help you, type of thing. So I would say, listen,

00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Be empathetic, and be compassionate. And truly be authentic, uh, as you show up.

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:26.000
Don't show… don't think that, you know, I've got it all covered, we're gonna make mistakes, it's… it's, you know, life goes like this, and we're human, we're imperfect human beings.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.000
But when you do make a mistake, admit it.

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:31.000
And I think people will recognize, because there's…

00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:39.000
for whatever reason, in the workplace, some, you know, particularly the higher up the individual goes in the organization, people look at that senior executive like,

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:52.000
They're, you know, I don't know what. They walk on water or something. And I'm like, you know what? They're human, just like all of us. They make mistakes. As a matter of fact, the imposter syndrome was found to be what it… was studied with women executives.

00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:02.000
Because when they stepped into it, they started to think, and now it's with everybody, not just women, um, they started to think, when are they gonna… when is somebody in here gonna realize, I don't have all the answers?

00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:03.000
And so, listen…

00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:05.000
I'm glad you said that. Go ahead.

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.000
Those three things. Listen, empathy, and compassion.

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.000
Listen, complete, and compassion, and I think, as you mentioned here, too,

00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.000
Listening is harder and harder.

00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:21.000
anymore. There's so much going on that we need to learn to listen better.

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:27.000
There's no doubt about that. We'll only have about 10 more minutes. This has gone so well, and there's so much more to talk about.

00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:30.000
But let's talk about some things that you do.

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:38.000
that you worked with, have you created some tools? I think it's, like, the Organizational Change Readiness, another way for… say, OCR?

00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:39.000
Yeah.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:42.000
And leadership, behavior, effectiveness assessments, LBM?

00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.000
LBE?

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:48.000
Yes. Yeah, so there's 3 instruments I've created. First, um…

00:50:48.000 --> 00:51:05.000
Um, with my book, The Boss, Behaviors of Smart Supervisors, in there, I've included a couple of them, because one of the things I tell bosses, managers, is you have five roles. You're a celebrity, quasi-psychologist, sociologist, anthropologist, and a director of an orchestra at the end of the day. And in my book, I explain what that is.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:20.000
But what I've done is, um, I've created a questionnaire to really… for them to reflect and think about how effective am I as a leader, but also they can get some 360 feedback. What do they think? Because one thing is my perception. Remember the example I gave you about this, the executive team earlier?

00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:31.000
So that's one. The other one is human intelligence. As I defined it, I created a questionnaire for them to assess their own organization. Based on its definition, if I accepted,

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:40.000
How well is my organization doing? And then the third one, I just told you earlier, 66% of change efforts fail. I created, um… it's actually a model

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:50.000
based on, um, lipid and Costner. And, um, what they talk about is, in order for organizations to change, you need leadership commitment and support,

00:51:50.000 --> 00:52:05.000
Vision, skills, incentive, resources, and action plan. And if you're missing any one of those, you're going to get to a disengaged workforce, confusion, anxiety, gradual change, frustration, and false starts. So I created a questionnaire for them to go, so based on the changes that are taking place,

00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:13.000
How ready for change is your organization? And gives them an opportunity to, again, put the mirror up to their organization or themselves, and go, how effective is our organization?

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:19.000
So those are some of the questionnaires that I've, um, come up with to help organizations and leaders

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:29.000
Um, um, sort of help position their organizations for… position themselves for success, and position their organizations for success. And oh, by the way, one other thing I did, too, was…

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:39.000
because I told you 70% of leaders are stressed out and 40% are willing to step down, also created a little questionnaire for them to kind of look in the mirror. I said, these are the things you need.

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:45.000
From mindfulness, exercise, sleep, and good, healthy eating, all of those kinds of things, relationships.

00:52:45.000 --> 00:53:04.000
Based on that, how would you rate yourself in these areas? 1 to 5 scale. To them, to look in the mirror and go, which one of these am I doing and not doing at the end of the day? Because I need to put my mask on first. As a leader, I need to be able to help myself out first, make sure I'm sort of grounded, so then I can turn around and help Mark and my team.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.000
So well said, and I tell people this all the time.

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.000
And I hope everybody already knows this.

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.000
But when that oxygen mass comes down in the airplane,

00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:18.000
Who do you put it on first?

00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:19.000
Exactly.

00:53:19.000 --> 00:53:23.000
yourself. If you have small children, of course, that's your biggest worry, but you can't help them.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:26.000
If you can't manage yourself,

00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:28.000
So, just like you're saying, put that…

00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:31.000
Look at that mirror for the leaders first.

00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:34.000
Put that oxygen mask on yourself first, and you can keep your strength.

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.000
going forward so you can help others, and if we look at that mirror,

00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:40.000
We can have the people

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:45.000
that work for us. Tell us how we manage. You will learn our lead.

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:47.000
We'll learn so much more about our leadership

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:50.000
That we may only think we're doing,

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:53.000
And we're not actually doing, right?

00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:54.000
Exactly, yeah. Amen to that.

00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.000
Yeah. So…

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.000
Yeah, if a listener wanted to start their own HI journey,

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.000
Today. Let's just say they're a small business, maybe a non-profit,

00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.000
Where should they begin?

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:09.000
No budget, just a willing heart. What can they do?

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:13.000
What are some first steps that they can take?

00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:26.000
You know, in order, because obviously it's just been, you know, an hour that we've been talking here, I would suggest go out to my website and look at some of the articles and videos I've posted out there to give you a sense as to what is a human intelligent workplace.

00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:30.000
And then if they agree with that,

00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:37.000
Um, then kind of look up in the mirror, and then maybe talk to some key players in their small business to go,

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:40.000
How well are we doing in this space?

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:50.000
Um, type of thing. And have some conversations there. And if they want to talk to somebody, they can kind of objectively look at them, help them from outside the fish tank, as I like to say.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.000
Um, reach out to me, and let's talk a little bit and see where we go.

00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:59.000
like that idea is reach out to them. Reach out, touch with him, talk to him, we'll give you his…

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:01.000
URL again in a few seconds.

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:04.000
But as we close, about 5 minutes left,

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.000
Looking ahead, 5 years,

00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:09.000
How do you see that dance?

00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:13.000
between AI and human intelligence evolving.

00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Will we finally find rhythm?

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.000
Or, keep stepping on each other's toes.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:29.000
So, I'd like to be optimistic and hope that we do. However, you and I have been around long enough that we see some of the things that we saw 30, 40 years ago still happening today.

00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:34.000
Um, so there's gonna be some pockets, unfortunately, where the dance may not happen.

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:44.000
But I think there's a lot of opportunities because more people, like I said, they're looking for purpose, mastery, all of those kinds of things. They're looking for happiness in the workplace.

00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.000
Type thing, and so I feel good, glass half full.

00:55:48.000 --> 00:56:00.000
growth mindset perspective that I think they're gonna… more organizations than not are gonna be there. And because we have things like Glassdoor, people can see, do I want to go work in that organization?

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:14.000
And if they're doing their good things, then I will. If not, then I won't, uh, type thing. But I will say that for the leaders, I would suggest try to curate a more human, intelligent workplace. And by that, I mean more happy and healthy,

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:28.000
Watch the U is for unconscious biases, we all have them. Mind, take care of your mind at the end of the day. Appreciate, that's the number one thing people are looking for. And remember, we're in a new time, and people are looking for different things.

00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:33.000
So remember, leaders create culture, culture drives behavior, and behavior produces results.

00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:38.000
So the long answer to your question, I feel optimistic. I feel there's hope,

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:55.000
And for those organizations, or for those individuals that lock themselves in and go, no, this is just touchy-feely stuff, touchy-feely stuff has impact, has organ… has financial implications. And to give you a quick example of that, in the Great Place to Work organizations, in those organizations, the employees

00:56:55.000 --> 00:57:05.000
outproduced those not in it? 8 point times 5, 8.5 times better than those that don't. So it does have bottom-line implications.

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.000
That is so true, and I think sometimes

00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:09.000
There are a lot of us, we're younger,

00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:15.000
did not know how to handle appreciation, did not know how to handle it. They were a little bit embarrassed.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:18.000
But it still helps. We learn…

00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:22.000
that going forward, right?

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.000
Great. Just a thank you.

00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:30.000
Yeah. Wow, what an incredible conversation with Dr. Marino. Thank you, Dr. Edwin, Marino, Ruiz?

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:32.000
They're reminding us.

00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:36.000
that while technology may shape our future,

00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:38.000
It's still humanity.

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:41.000
That gives it meaning.

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:43.000
His message about creating.

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.000
human intelligent Workplaces.

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.000
And it challenges each of us

00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:51.000
have to lead.

00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:54.000
With compassion. To listen with intent.

00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:57.000
And to make room for both innovation,

00:57:57.000 --> 00:58:03.000
And the empathy. If we can bring that balance into our daily lives.

00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.000
And to our organizations.

00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.000
then we can truly begin to form.

00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.000
to live. The heart.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.000
of achieving unity success formula.

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:14.000
And the HI…

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:16.000
Dr. Marino talked to us about.

00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:20.000
Where success is not just about what we accomplish.

00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.000
But how we grow.

00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.000
and achieve together.

00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:30.000
Yes, that is, too, in AUSF, Achieving Unity Success Formula.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.000
We all can dream boldly.

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:35.000
Lead humanly?

00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.000
And serve, as we talked about.

00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:39.000
with purpose.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:44.000
Dr. Mayo, do you have any final comments you want to say before we go to closure?

00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:52.000
I just thank you for this time. Like I said, I will call us out from the mountaintops and continue to push forward. You and I are on parallel paths.

00:58:52.000 --> 00:59:02.000
Trying to help humanity, try to help the workplace, where they're gonna spend $90,000 waking hours of work, and as your middle circle there says, leaders, focus on the right things.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:13.000
Focus on the right things, and I promise you, it'll pay off in the long run. All you gotta do is think about that boss that you would work for again, because they were effective. I've only had 5 over my lifetime, and I've had a lot of bosses.

00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:21.000
but five that I would work for again. And it's how they treated me along the way. So, thank you, Mark, for your time, for allowing me to come on,

00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:30.000
this call here. I appreciate it, and I hope it helps your listeners out there. And if you have any… anybody has any questions, don't hesitate to reach out to me on my website or on LinkedIn.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:34.000
Sounds great. That's great. And for all of us.

00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.000
Let's consider our next align step.

00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:41.000
Dr. Molino, Human Intelligent Workplace, and everywhere else.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:46.000
For the future of work will belong not to the smartest machines,

00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:48.000
But to the most human leaders.

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:54.000
Thank you, Dr. Evan Marino, and thanks to our AUSF community for turning unity

00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:00.000
into action. Remember, unity, like technology that enhances human capability,

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.000
Not replace it is a mindset of value.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:06.000
And not just an ideal.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:11.000
These are success strategies. It is a daily choice to lead with empathy.

01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:15.000
Act with integrity, and uplift others.

01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:21.000
along the way. A service that we can share with everyone around us for free.

01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:27.000
As we gain so much more for ourselves, even though we're giving it for free.

01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:32.000
Excuse me. So, for anything that I share may have resonated with you,

01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:39.000
Follow that feeling. Reach out and connect with me, www.unitySuccessfulme.com.

01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:44.000
www.marking.com, www.achievingunity.com.

01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.000
Connect with me. And…

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.000
With each and every inspiration.

01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:52.000
that Dr. Marino talked to us about today and shared with us.

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.000
contact Dr. Edwin.

01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:58.000
Contact him on LinkedIn. Through his website.

01:00:58.000 --> 01:01:02.000
Human Intelligentworkplace.com.

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:05.000
That's Human Intelligentworkplace.com.

01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:07.000
Go talk to him. Get onto his website.

01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:10.000
Find out more. Appreciate it.

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:12.000
Dr. Miro, thank you again for being here.

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.000
Until next time, let us continue to transform chaos

01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:23.000
into connection. Let us continue achieving unity. www.achievingunity.com or call us.

01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:25.000
303 focused.

01:01:25.000 --> 01:01:28.000
303-362-8733.

01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:30.000
We can stay focused.

01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.000
Turning chaos into connection.

01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.000
As we achieve unity by harnessing the power.

01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:38.000
of encouraging.

01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:42.000
Inspiring, and including others in building better businesses.

01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.000
better lives, and a better world.

01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.000
Life is what we make it, so let's make it awesome together.

01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:57.000
In unity. Thank you all, and thank you, Dr. Edwin. Appreciate you so much, and your words that you brought to us today for your message on helping others.

01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:00.000
Thank you for your time, thank you for your commitment.

01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:03.000
Hope to see you all again next week.

01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:04.000
Thank you. Take care.

01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.000
Till then. Cheers.

Episode 62: Debe Fennell

WATCH THIS EPISODE LIVE ON YOUTUBE

Guest: Debe Fennell

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